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Why don't they designate laneways, and such, where graff artists can freely work their magic..?!
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Great Idea Lutece kind of like the Cans Festival.
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Get an ABN saying you're an artist or designer and you'll be fine. While I agree that these laws are a terrible abuse of due process (you're presumed guilty until proven innocent... wtf?), the silver lining is that it'll separate the dedicated artists from the wannabes. If it's in your blood no law will ever stop you...
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Advanced Member
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thats it ryz. if your painting a train, your painting a fuckin train. These sorts of laws won't stop your Bones's or Vosco's. Or even the puzle's and porno's. It's just draconian bullshit. Hit the little fish harder.
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Advanced Member
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stupid stupid shit. Really gets my goat. For example I used to work at a hobby store selling toy soldiers ( I am a massive nerd by the way) and now you have to ask for ID when a kid buys a can of Skull white to paint his soldiers. And he can get fined on his way home. just flat out stupid.
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Miro you are amongst friends here, this is a safe place, I won't start talking about my hobbies, or Star Trek Next Gen collection. Anyway, this is simply ridiculous, and the hobby store scenario is the first of many. I guess it then just comes down to if you look like a writer, you dress like a writer and you get caught with paint, then you get fined. I would just keep a whole lot of toy soldiers in my backpack with a shopping list and detailed instructions, surely that would hold up in court... Surely.
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I look forward to the day when someone challenges this law in court, becuase it is totally unconstitutional and will never hold up. All we need is a precedent.
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a while ago i tried to create some discussion between major "players" if you will, in the melbourne scene about this to no avail. the general consistence was if you dont have your pens or cans out you wont get trouble, and that a law like this cant stop whats happening. its already illegal and making it more illegal wont change a thing. i agree with that. the fuck up issue i have is that its just a cover to be able to search any mother fucker the cops want. fuck that shit. what happened to innocent until proven guilty??? fucking totalitarian bullshit. wy dont the just CCTV the whole city??? We will just need to wait till some rich grammar student decides hes going to study the Graffiti scene for his VCE studio art folio and buys a can and gets dicked. then his parent pay for a super QC and gets the shit thrown out of court and people see the stupidness of the laws.
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Advanced Member
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I agree J. Real Graf will never die. It was born out of oppression, thrives in the nooks and crannies of city's and legal systems and despite the Man, Graf will continue to ascend. It took photography almost a century to be a respected artform. Graf will win out.
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Advanced Member
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really makes me angry though.
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Senior Member
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People that have the real passion for graffin will continue and do there thing. as for the fuk nuckles that cruise around taging in daylight and acting like fukheads i hope they fuk up and kop out of the scene and let the real artist express and process what its all about. If the image of the artists is dirty then so the people will see there art as dirt.
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Advanced Member
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Nothing wrong with dirt. graff comes from dirt man, taggin is just as legit as piecing. Plenty of wicked writers started with markers.
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Senior Member
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Their efforts will be futile. Melbourne graffiti scene is much larger than the cops. This new law just gives artist more fuel to go out there and express themselves. And rightly so, we don't live in a communist society so don't introduce communist laws upon it's people. Street art is what makes Melbourne so interesting and exiting to live in.
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Senior Member
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I'm sure if you painted an impressionist mural on a street wall, there would be no problem, it's because these stupid narrow minded dickheads have not recognized this new art revolution as credible art. Melbourne street art is going down in history. in 20 years, future generations will be studding this in school and uni.
Also the stupidly rich and powerful have not found a way to cash in on this art and never will. If they could this would not be a topic of discussion or a "problem" for the police. It's also another revenue making scheme for the police. Speed cameras aren't bringing in enough money for them anymore. People of Melbourne have wised up.
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Senior Member
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...also agree with FBS mindless tagging is not considered as art to me. especially those who tag over great graffiti art. Total disrespect.
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tags is where it came from. for some its still about getting up city wide. i love that calligraphy tags thats been rocking lately. amazing typography.
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I'm also surprised that most if not all of the outcry is coming from the (street) art community, when in fact this sort of erosion of civil liberties affects everyone. I guess people are scared to be labelled as "vandal sympathisers" if they speak out about it. And this is only the start of it - do you know that the government is planning to introduce nation-wide ISP level internet filtering? The official line is that it's to stop child pornography, but with people like Steve Fielding holding the balance of power who knows what sort of slippery slope this will lead down... I've been writing letters to any politician whose address I can get hold of, but pretty much no one I've talked to has even HEARD of this plan. It's getting beyond ridiculous.
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Advanced Member
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sure you can separate tags from pieces. But what about stickers? stencils? I knew a bloke that would strip the upholstery off couch cushions and dip em in paint and use them like massive markers. All graf is graf, whether liked or not it tagging is a part of the whole.
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New Lounger
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meanwhile th couter-productive councils spend money to remove graffiti and 'clean' the city they are giving out thousdands in grants for projects such as 'welcome to cocker alley'. Look it up. either you want to support street cuture and urdban art or you dont. Why waste taxpapers money cleaning of free graffiti only to pay another artits thousands to 'beutify' the ally in a way of their choosing?
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It's guilt by association guys. People who tag are put in the same bag as "artists" and people with talent who create legitimately cool pieces. That bag has the words VANDAL ironically spray painted on the side of it.
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Advanced Member
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Yawn- Everyone's an expert.
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Advanced Member
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I am no expert motherbitch, my arrogance about the topic comes from my passion. I can feel grafitti stirring in my loin.
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more specifically LOINS.
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There will never be an answer.
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Advanced Member
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I dont have an answer, but I have a perspective that might help. Graff doesn't gain legitimacy purely because puzle or daim pr whoever is awesome at it. Judging graff piece by piece, tag by tag only fuels personal "I like" based arguments. Resurfacing walls, whether paint, chalk, ink scratch or paper is grafitti. You make the personal choice whether "Grafitti" is a valid form of art or not. Then come what may all graf is judged by the same decision.
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Senior Member
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What a bunch of Toy Cunts. Just cos they got scratchied.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_art & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elements_of_art. There shouldn't even be any debate over whether graffiti is art or not.
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i dont really think whether this is art is the issue, its the legality of the form.
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Advanced Member
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art or media?
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Jay: just about every anti-graffiti argument I've ever heard has been based on either: a) "It's not art because it's illegal" or b) "It's not art because it's ugly".
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i cant stand the "It's not art because it's illegal" bullshit. if Jackson Pollock was around today and did a painting on the side of a building or station it would be a national treasure and a tourism piece. but then again, so is all the graf in Melbourne. Another thing, this is from a council that used the work by Phibs in its Thats Melbourne T.V and print campaign but will give him a fine for creating it.
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Senior Member
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Don't you just love a passionate argument? I love all your comments. All of you have legitimate opinions. Show your support September 20th at Jewell Station. Brusnswick for "Don't ban the Can"
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Advanced Member
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then can we drink beers and trash the station? I am going to write "Notorious_jay was born in a tent!" with a dulux flat black. It will be awesome.
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HA HA! i do wonder if the next day after the opening of the show, will the area will be heavily bombed? that will REALLY help here cause. nothing makes yo want to paint more that seeing A grade work.
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Sweet, I'll see you there guys! I'll be the guy wearing $600 worth of designer clothes, painting with my $15 Molotow cans.
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Advanced Member
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I wil be the bloke grinking as many free/cheap Melbourne bitters as possible, Blank hoodie, markers, kangol hat.
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Advanced Member
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*drinking*
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Advanced Member
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Did anybody actually READ all Jo's words?
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*and 26RED jeans listening to a dubbed cassette of 36 Chambers
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I had completely forgotten about 26 Red until that very second. Hilarious.
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Advanced Member
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what about a 26red hoodie! I have one of those.
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http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24209371-2862,00.html
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Ha! "Graffiti Hurts Australia" Scott Hilditch would be the worst dinner party guest ever.
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New Lounger
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ryz, why don't you write a letter to a dodgy current affairs program (re: 7 & 9) about the ISP thing? They love controversy. Or at least making some up where there isnt any. Either way. I can just hear Anna Cohren's (her and her show shits me but I still want to pants her heaps) freakishly deep slightly smokey voice now "hard working orstrayleeun families are soon to be the targets of a 1984 big brother intrusion. blah blah government will stop you looking at porn blah blah anti terrorism waffle waffle waffle I want beren in my pants" the end.
oh yeah, and this anti-graffiti law stuff is lame. I remember both times I was melbourne thinking how cool the artwork was in some of the laneways. too bad I could never find them again. why does melbourne have the coolest things down the hardest laneways to find again?
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because we want to keep it from visitors.
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Advanced Member
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yes some graffiti is art, but most of the time it isn't, there's heaps of stupid kids/teenagers who think they're making 'art' by just scribbling their name or 'tag' on every single thing you see. you can't say it's art. walking through melbourne i feel angry when i see a good piece of grafitti ruined by some dick head's tag written all over it. it's like putting my name on the mona lisa. fuck them. unless you're talented, i'd say don't bother graffiting. there needs to be some way to filter out the shit grafitti and the good ones.
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ohnonotrose, everyone starts at the bottom. I agree that kids should stick to drains, etc before hitting the streets, but that's never gonna happen. The destruction of pieces is also essential to the ephemeral cycle of graffiti - if no one capped/slashed walls they wouldn't be repainted out of respect for the artist and the scene would become stagnant.
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So what do people think of "scratchfitti" then? Its tagging regardless of what method is used..would you classify it as art? I fucken hate it..hate hate hate. Nothing is worst than seeing a window full of toy scratches. Its ugly and most times the lettering is so wack it makes me cry. Yet its now considered an element of "graff"if you ask the next gen of artists. Art or crap?
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capping a piece is one thing as thats how battles started in the old dats. But adding your tag next to the original creator of the piece to give yourself props is worst than capping i rekon. And most kids do it these days. But hey its not their fault when they are sorrounded by images and marketing that encourages the whole notion of 15 mins of fame and you don't have to be talented to be famous ideolgy. They are essentially a product of modern society and graff to me is more about "fashion" than art these days. Its preety shit.
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Advanced Member
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you cant lay down rules on how to "TAG". THats one of the main points of the whole thing. Graff is a beautiful part of our cities. Completely, even the individual pieces of shit vandalism/tags/scratchies, are a part of a larger thing. THat all ecnompassing power is awesome, goes beyond ruling excepting of course, you can rule with wicked skills.
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New Lounger
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Im new to melbourne, and come from auckland where we have minimal street art. The first thing which made me fall in love with Melbourne city is the amazing art i keep finding everywhere.. so you can count on my support to make sure that the exsquisite street culture in melbourne doesnt vanish due to some beurocratic leeches... peace Dylan see you on the 20th
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Senior Member
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Could this Brumby guy be any more of a brainless dick. Hey Brumby NO ONE ELECTED YOU. I HOPE YOU REALISE THAT NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND IS GOING TO VOTE FOR YOU.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/writings-on-wall-and-for-brumby-its-the-blight-of-day-20080930-4r8e.html?page=1
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Senior Member
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Do read this article:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/writings-on-wall-and-for-brumby-its-the-blight-of-day-20080930-4r8e.html?page=1
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Thanks for the link Futuretron, he is a TOOL.
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New Lounger
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just an outsiders question: who determines where this artwork is acceptable? Is your mum's new brick garden wall OK for my art? How do we as a community resolve a disagreement?
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No one gets to decide where it is ok. That's the point of Graffitti.
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Your mum's brick wall, a train, a van, it's the artist's choice. And, as a community, we still haven't managed to resolve disagreements about graffiti because, like so many forms of art, it divides and challenges people.
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Advanced Member
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My mum's brick wall will fricken burn your mum's brick wall. ANYTIME.
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New Lounger
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OK thanks. Jamie, you have explained an awful lot i didn't understand until now.
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New Lounger
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I am in my own small way no mean artist, tho mainly of the BS variety. Am I able to add to/modify graffitti to suit whichever of my artistic tastes or capabilities is to the fore at the time I pick up my can or brush? ? Does that fit the model of complete artistic freedom that I must say seems so beguiing?
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Hi John, pleasure. Glad to be of assistance. I'm not qualified to answer your questions, as I was never an artist in the sense that this topic covers. However there are people on this site who are the most respected graffiti artists in the country & often globally. The thing is, they wouldn't bother answering either, as your questions seem loaded to me. They also seem like questions that an artist wouldn't ever even contemplate asking. More like a journo who is trying to get some quotes for an article... Happens a lot around here. PS: it's beguiling, not beguiing.
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Advanced Member
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loaded? I couldn't even understand it.
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